The Internet vs. Bioware: How Trolls Set Out To Destroy The Old Republic

The Internet vs. Bioware: How Trolls Set Out To Destroy The Old Republic

January 30, 2012 1:11 am 259 comments

If there has ever been a video game with a more centralized controversy than The Old Republic, I don’t know what it would be.  When Rockstar’s Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas’ Hot Coffee scandal hit, there was a lot of discussion about the importance of censorship, the morality of video games, and the responsibility of parents to watch what their children played.  In time, the controversy came and passed, that version of the game was effectively banned, and Jack Thompson was shown to be a total idiot and a fraud.  People were shot in the streets, and hookers were murdered with crowbars for a quick refund… in-game.  When Star Wars: The Old Republic launched, I’m quite convinced the same happened in real-life.

One of their favorite images, usually accompanied with the term 'ToRtanic.'

 

The undeserved negative publicity that The Old Republic has garnered is almost mindboggling.  Like a kind of collective inside joke that a fourth of the internet heard about, and then immediately forgot why was funny, the sheer amount of damage that a very vocal group in the internet will attempt to heap onto one game makes absolutely no sense from any logical standpoint.  From the GameFAQS Boards, to 4chan, and even Bioware’s own The Old Republic forums, nowhere appears to be safe from this bizarre culture that seemed to have sprung up overnight with no intention but to rape all the reputation of a game seemingly at random, subtlety and experience be damned.  Talk about this game, or dare admit to playing it, and you will be flamed to a well-done crisp by every meaningless troll in a desperate attempt at absorbing you into their collective of hate mongering.

My favorite "arguments" are when they take games which are clearly graphically inferior, such as WoW, and put up a comparison picture. People flock to it, repost it everywhere they can, claiming that the game has such outdated "PS1" graphics compared to the other one. It. Never. Fails.

 

Now, let me get this straight from the beginning.  I am not a fan of Bioware. Not even passively.  They are well-known for major games like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur’s Gate, the Mass Effects, and (at least the first) Dragon Age.  Literally the only game I have ever beaten by them is the first Knights of the Old Republic, and though it is perhaps in my top 25 games of all time, I felt that the literally half-finished Knights of the Old Republic II by Obsidian is better in virtually every department. I did not like Mass Effect because of a severe lack of flow, and Dragon Age just bored me after I learned most of its tricks, though I appreciated its story and setting.  I am not a Bioware fanboy, and any member of the ‘I Hate Bioware and Need to Let the Universe Know’ club who is prepared to call me a Biodrone is only making themselves look stupid.  They are a below average developer to me.  But trust me, I’ll post this on message boards, and without reading, they (the Anti-Bioware Troll Force) will assume I’m proclaiming this game the next coming of Christ (which it’s not), and call me a sheep all because they’re products of this movement.  Hopefully those who did read my article will then laugh heartily at them.

I'm currently a level 50 Smuggler, and if I were forced to score it now, I'd give it a low 8, if you're curious.

 

Here are a few prime examples of the fanatical devotion these people have to the destruction of this game.  In an interview with James Ohlen, one of the directors for the new MMO, he says, in response to the game’s Metacritic score being much higher for professional reviews (then an 85), than user reviews (then a 6.1): “Oh that’s easy.  Several of the designers were watching the Metacritic page when it finally came up and what happened was there is a community out there, and we don’t know who they are – it could be a bunch of different people – who aren’t really playing the game but have a vested interest in hating the game. And we saw literally hundreds of 0/10s come up within the first couple of hours of Metacritic coming on. So it was people who weren’t even playing the game basically putting on that they hated it.

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-12-bioware-swtor-post-mortem-its-more-innovative-than-an-fps

When this was posted on 4chan, I witnessed a supermassive collective of people immediately hounding, laughing, and jumping on this man’s back (at least if the internet allowed such a thing) at his ‘desperate’ attempt at ‘damage control.’  This would be completely valid reasoning, if he weren’t completely correct about the existence of dozens of user reviews formed solely for this reason.  Seriously, look at the blatant ploys on Metacritic doing nothing but attempting to destroy this game’s reputation.  I even made a game out of it, opening up the reviews of the first ten “zero” scores that I came across and looking at their attempts at just pure trolling, inflicting damage on popular franchises, or were only there for that single review.  If you want a good laugh, here’s what I came across:

1. 0 for Old Republic, 0 for Modern Warfare 3, 10 for Deus Ex: Human Revolution.  Because attacking two mega-popular franchises with the lowest available score and pumping up what’s likely your favorite game isn’t bias. Zoan626

2. 0 for Old Republic, and Elder Scrolls: Skyrim.  My favorite line: “Even space combat/missions are copied 1:1 from Rebel Assault.”  Really?  1:1, like, they ripped the freaking game out and ported it to the PC?  Wow.  He does admittingly have a few more reasonable reviews. Bugmenot

3. 0 for The Old Republic, 0 for Dragon Age II.  Despite his saying that he was a huge fan of the original Dragon Age in his review for it, he doesn’t have a review for the original, and clearly just has it out for Bioware.  MQCmD

4. Claims that there is little interactivity… “Yes there are other players running around but I think it’s a bug, since the interaction potential this game offers is equal to null.”  No, I think the ability to run is rather common in MMOs, my friend. Tkwz

5.  I was wondering when I would come across one of these.  It’s just a 0 for The Old Republic, and absolutely nothing more to review.  He claims it’s ‘decent’ if you like Bioware and Star Wars… but gave it literally a ‘no effort’ grade. BibimBOP

6. Oh, boy, another 0 and 10 guy.  Guess freaking what, he’s the exact same as one of my prior ones for his most hated games (ToR, MW3, and DA2), two of which are Bioware, and otherwise showing no interest in their games.  Mindless hating on a developer and utter praise for anything you like is always a sign of maturity. Best logic, and a clear indication he never played the game and drew on his vague knowledge of how most MMOs work to right his ‘review,’ he states that it’s a typical “auto-attack” combat.  Which the game doesn’t have (at least at the time of this posting, they’ve talked about implementing it in a future update).  Glorious. Yasuchika

7. See number 5. UpsetGamer

8. See… 5 and 7. VeryAverage

9. See… 5… 7… AND 8.  God this was simpler to write than I thought. Skeletor

10. Probably the only half-way logical one, and then only if you tilt your head and squint.  Still gave Dragon Age 2 a zero for my favorite Bioware Hate twofer.  Every other review is a postive one, leaving him randomly attacking a developer he has no care for because he can. Evrae_Altana

This wasn’t a formulated list to point out the bad seeds.  This was the first 10 I noticed on the list, and they’re all piss-poor reviews or biased to Hell and back.  Why?  Because they only cared due to being part of this anti-ToR movement that nobody even understands anymore, and are only suffering a loss of intelligence because of it.  The very same people who call people ‘drones’ and ‘sheep’ are part of that very same hivemind of hatred that are being fed lies and misinformation in order to make an above-average MMO seem like the worst thing to ever come out of gaming.  Seriously, does nobody know what an actual ‘zero’ score game is?  When you get a zero on a paper, you either fail to do the guidelines on an assignment, or don’t turn anything in.

(This is a zero or one score game.  There is more entertainment value in a single quest or the opening cutscene of The Old Republic than this steaming pile of crap.)

Speaking of lies and misinformation, I love how these people have blown all those ban allegations completely out of the water.  Or in the case of the dance bug (dancing would prevent aggro from working under certain conditions), the circulated ban offense was completely fake altogether.

Both of these cases caused a lot of controversy, and in both cases, they ended up being completely fake.  Add this to a very vocal minority who wants nothing more than to destroy this game and all it stands for, it’s quite obvious what’s going on.  Of course, anarchal liars who only want to watch the world burn will blame Bioware for this, saying that they’re screwing people out of their right to protest on their sites, and they’re “worse than Jews” (not my words, but the words of members of the Anti-Bioware Force) for not wanting to let people take back their money.  I wonder if it’s crazier to believe this or smash your face into a brick wall twenty times every hour.  It’s insanity to the highest caliber.

(Although, we did get the ‘DING DONG BANNU’ and ‘RINE ENDS HERE —— YOU CROSS RINE!?’ memes, so maybe it was worth it in the end.)

(Probably not a good idea to post an anti-ToR message in what’s kind of a pro-ToR essay, but it’s too funny not to share.)

Listening to these extreme Biohaters collectively masturbate over their own ‘unique’ and ‘intelligent’ opinions, all while placing cut-and-paste arguments against the game is hilarious in its own right.  They post beta videos and highlight the glitches and extreme easiness, when the entire point of a beta is to weed out problems and test out that mechanics work, rather than provide a challenge.  The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim has had a much better reception regarding its amount of bugs, and as a person who avidly played that game when it came out, and is playing ToR right now, there’s no comparison between the two.  Skyrim was much buggier (ed. Note and arguably still is).  When looking on various gaming boards, these gamebreaking glitches are usually accompanied one of three ways: rage at having a quest chain broken, getting stuck, or an item lost; laughter at how comical the bug is, and especially how easy it is to trick the A.I.; or an acceptance that mods or a later patch will soon fix it.  If the same thing happens to ToR, it’s only ever one option – the first.  When a patch comes out that actually, gasp, fixes stuff, you will hear people lashing out quite violently at how the game “should have had that fixed before launch,” or, if they think another aspect is more broken, laugh at where Bioware’s priorities lie.  This is especially funny because The Old Republic is an MMO, the most evolutionary of gaming genres, but then again this is coming from the same people who call the game the SPORPG (Single Player Online Role Playing Game).  However, anyone who actually plays will tell you that if anything there are too many group instances.  It becomes a hassle trying to find people for the Heroic Dailies. Because Bioware has integrated a plot that is halfway worth playing by yourself without feeling the need to grind up to max level in order to enjoy yourself, they screech unfair obscenities and call it a subscription-based single player game.  Classy.

 (Here’s a beta fight against one of the hardest instance bosses, Darth Malgus.  I still see this video posted around as though it’s indicative of current difficulty, and it’s very simply not.  Nobody loses more than about 10% health, because the game was only there at that point to test mechanics.  Mechanics are not able to be tested if people die, so it was easier.)

 (Here’s the same fight, but on Normal difficulty post-launch.  A couple of times characters lose a quarter health, but it’s still not that difficult.  Thing is?  There are Normal, Hard, and Nightmare versions of this fight.  See where I’m getting at here, trolls?)

The Old Republic is nowhere near a perfect game.  It’s not even going to make it into my top 25 unless it makes some serious changes, and I consider the Knights games my third favorite gaming series.  If you must, by that logic, it is a disappointment.  But by far the professional reviewers have gotten it right, with mostly 9s, 8s, and a few logical 7s for its grading.  It doesn’t deserve anything below a 6 by even the staunchest critics; however, I’m sick of being unable to hold a basic conversation or read through message board posts without having to weed out those who have just jumped on the ToR-hating bandwagon.  If you’re tired of this, too, make your own opinions and post this around.  Maybe we can finally put a stop to this madness… though I doubt it.

inb4 “The Old Republic?  Anything other than 0/10?  I seriously hope you guys don’t believe this.” and related derivatives.

 

About

He graduated from Arkansas State University with a degree in English. He enjoys video games, anime, and most of geekdom and loves to talk about the things that interest him.

259 Comments

  • Casey Brown

    Bravo, sir!

  • Good stuff. Didn't know there was this much hate for the game.

  • Nice article. More fuel to the flame that is my disappointment for internet culture.

  • Personalty if you hate a game then don't play it. Why hate something u haven't tried. Just plain stupidity.

  • Good Read. well done.
    BTW. thumbs up!

  • Now that is a nerd rant if I ever saw one. Nytloc, destroyer of internet idiocy.

  • Thanks everyone! This and my Zelda Introspective are my personal favorite things I've done, and I'm planning to post this all over the Internet tonight. If I do it right, we may get a lot of publicity… Hopefully positive.

  • Sorry, that comment was accidentally under my dad's account. He didn't log out of my phone.

  • This article is dumb. The fact is that game sucks and I regret my purchase. You sound like a Biodrone.

    • For a game that supposedly sucks, SWTOR is a hell of a lot of fun to play.

    • Don't mistake a fun game for a good game. You might have fun playing Checkers but it's not the highest point of game design.

    • Ben Shortt Best comeback of the new year!

    • What's the difference between it and WoW?
      WoW's races actually look different.

    • Ben Shortt Actually, Checkers is one of the best designed games of all time, which is why it has lasted all these years… and if you're not judging games by their level of fun, what do you judge them by?

    • You can't judge a game by "fun" because "fun" is subjective. Different people enjoy different things. I, for one, enjoy controls that don't bug out and get me killed every half hour. o/

      And Checkers has survived so long as a game because it's simple to learn and play. It's survived through sheer proliferation; the rabbit of the boardgame world, as compared to the majestic stag that is chess.

    • You sir are a gentleman and a scholar. (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

    • lol, you just proved his point.

    • Ben Shortt Don't make me laugh. Of course fun is subjective… but so is Judgment itself, duh. As Aidan says, your statement about Checkers completely proves my point. If we are going to judge SWTOR objectively, then How do we do that? Do we count lines of code, polygons, calculations per second? Please, let's do that, and see how other games stack up…..

    • Eric Yeager The game is jut a clone of WoW and now the graphics are worse than the beta. I feel cheated personally.

    • Ben Shortt You aren't even comparing the design of checkers and chess, you are comparing the mechanics of the game. This factors into the fun of the game based on the person buying it. If you don't like the over simplicity of checkers, you buy chess because, and this is subjective, it is fun to the participant and therefore has created a good game for them. If you don't like the mechanics of TOR then this game will obviously not appeal to your tastes. This doesn't mean that other people haven't managed to get around the bug issues and still enjoy the game while it is in its infancy.

    • Ben Shortt You are dumb. The fact you are even comparing a game made hundreds of years ago to a modern form of interactive media is stupid. And besides whats the point of a game if it is not fun. You are probably too busy comparing spec sheets of games to actually have fun playing them.

    • Steven Yurgelevic The game shares a handful of features with WOW… but also has a lot of departures. Personally, I feel that the alignment system breaks away from other games in the genre in a significant way.

    • Eric Yeager Not a handful. It is a straight up WoW-clone. Even the skills are all identical to WoW. I was hoping for something new.

    • Steven Yurgelevic OK, now you are just trolling. The skills are completely different. Some of them are standard MMO faire, like making armor and stuff, but most of them are vastly different… and you can use them to do things inside of flashpoints. For example, Scavengers can control droids as pets. Slicers can hack to take shortcuts around trash mobs. You picked the one thing that is probably the most different from WOW and said it was clone? TROLLOL!

    • Eric Yeager How am I trolling? Just because I do not like the game does not make me a troll. I think you have run out of arguments and are now making ad hominem attacks.

    • these people don't play a lot do they?

    • What's wrong with checkers? If someone could now invent a game as simple and as enduring as checkers he'd be able to buy off WoW with pocket change. Sadly, nowadays not all "new" is "better." Not by far.

    • Marko Raos I really think a lot of the problem with new is the fact that people want to get it out way before it is well created. Nothing is wrong with checkers, man. Guy just doesn't like the simplicity in style.

    • Stephen VanBoekel

      Ben Shortt Then maybe we forgot what gaming what all about.

    • If you have some friends around to experience it with you even bowel cancer can be fun. That doesn't mean you wouldn't have more fun playing an actually good game.

    • Steven Yurgelevic Trolling because you picked one of the most dissimilar features between the games and said they are identical. Either you said that on purpose to troll, or you didn't play SWTOR much, if any at all. Either way, trolling.

    • Eric Yeager Just because I dislike the game doesn't make me a troll. You sound like a typical Bioware defender.

    • Elff Yuvonne Watson

      Steven Yurgelevic, the fact that someone likes a game does not make them "a Bioware defender." There aren't any "factions." In fact, it's outright hostile to say so, and you know it.

      He is speaking of the GAME. Not the COMPANY. You, on the other hand, will evidently nitpick everything about the game into oblivion until you manage to grasp some miniscule shred of an argument, all in the name of ripping on Bioware because you have some bizarre vendetta against the company. If that's not a hivemind mentality, then what is?

    • Elff Yuvonne Watson You seem to be assuming quite a bit. I don't have any vendetta against the company, where did that even come from? Where did most of this stuff come from? You are assuming quite a bit from a few simple lines I have typed. This is typical of someone who has no argument. I simply purchased a game and was severely disappointed at the lack of innovation. Most of the stuff is copied straight from WoW, to deny this is simply to be blind. Bioware even openly admits it too: http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/02/14/bioware-says-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-star-wars-the-old-republ/

    • Elff Yuvonne Watson

      Steven Yurgelevic You prove my point – you're nitpicking. TOR did not reinvent the MMO genre, no, but to say it is a copy of WoW is ridiculous. WoW itself borrowed *heavily* from earlier MMOs such as EverQuest. It was most certainly not an original MMO, simply the most popular to that date. WoW is NOT the be-all-end-all to online PC gaming.

      I say you have a vendetta against the company because you seem to be branding anyone who disagrees with you a "Biodrone" when this is not the case. You put this unnecessary focus on the company itself, rather than the merits of the game, which people are defending.

      To most people, WoW was their first experience with MMOs. Nearly every game in the genre that has come out after it has followed the same basic formula – and TOR is most certainly nowhere near the most guilty in "copying" it. There are several, *several* things about TOR that are fresh and new to the MMO scene, yet they get no credit because people seem too intent on complaining about the bad instead of celebrating the good.

      If you're going to pull the "copy-paste" card, then look back further than WoW. Because frankly I'm sick of this ridiculous argument. And, also, there is a HUGE difference between using another game as motivation and copying it. Do not claim that Bioware "admitted to copying" when that is not what happened. It's blatant misinformation.

    • Elff Yuvonne Watson I'm not nitpicking. I don't want to play a game that is a clone of game I played for years. Not to mention, an inferior clone. Saying that "All MMOs are like it" is absolutely no justification for it. They spent large amounts of money on this product and made a copy cat instead of something new. Just because everything has been a clone is not a justification for releasing ANOTHER clone, except with voice acting now. That is not misinformation. Read it. They are openly claiming to follow everything WoW does and not vary from it. The game is a Warhammer Online all over again. Regardless of how you feel about the game, the population has been in a steady decline since it's release. Hell, they lost 200,000 people before the free month was even up.

    • Elff Yuvonne Watson

      Steven Yurgelevic The voice acting – which you were so kind to mention – is a step up from WoW in and of itself. The companion affection system, your own personal ship/housing, the legacy system, all of these things are new and unique to TOR. Not to mention the vastly superior graphics, particle effects, and facial expressions. TOR has shown much more initiative at this point than WoW did when it came about riding on the skeleton of the first EverQuest. Again – popularity is not the same thing as originality.

      I am not saying that WoW sucks. I played it when it first came out, and I had fun. WoW is a fun, enjoyable game, and I am not saying any different. But to me, it's grown stale, and I'm thrilled that people are trying to inject some new things into MMOs. I am not afraid of change.

      To quote your article: "It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

      All Zeschuk is saying is that WoW, as the game that brought MMOs into mainstream gaming, has set standards for the industry and that is a fact. There is a certain form and structure to MMOs that *every* one has followed, and he is right in saying that breaking them would be a very risky move. WoW did NOT create these standards. But as the first MMO to appeal to the masses, it popularized them. NOWHERE in the article does he claim to "copy" WoW, or anything of the sort. To say so is not only blatant hyberbole, but skewing the information in the article to say what you want it to say.

      To say that TOR "copied" WoW is like saying that every single work of fantasy is "copying" J. R. R. Tolkien by using orcs, elves, dwarves, etc. It's just ridiculous.

    • Ben Shortt Yes Checkers is horrible game design, that is why nobody has even heard of it, that shit died quick…

    • Dane DaddyCool Trollman That is misdirection to say that friends being with you makes bowel cancer fun. What is really fun in that situation isn't the cancer but the time spent with your friends. Bowel cancer continues to stay on the same level of suck even if the pain is slightly alleviated because your mind is distracted. That is a flawed argument.

    • Steven Yurgelevic WTF??? Seriosuly… you 100% disconnect facts from truth. I STATED that you are citing 100% LIES as your evidence…. and you say "just because I dislike the game…. bla bla bla" Listen captain insano… I am tired of trying to reason with your idiocy.. just FUCK OFF!!!

    • Ben Shortt I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm enjoying the hell out of TOR but trying to play it with my friends is an exercise in frustration, all because of poor design decisions.

      Half of my friend's plot missions' cutscenes I can see, and half of them I'm not allowed to? I do certain missions over and over again, but can't even WATCH the cutscenes from other missions again when my friends do them? Playing with a friend's who is 2 levels below me make the fights in his missions un-losable?

  • But people who was so pro-game in the beta/launch are starting to see how bad the game really is, and all that complains get deleted in the forums instead of fixing them. This article is dumb.

  • /v/ rates games 0/10 because they deserve that rating. SWTOR is a massive fail, as well as most things made by BioWare nowadays. If you honestly go onto /v/ and think people are trolling when they give a game a 0/10, they aren't because that game is shit. That's final.

    • Someone who plays League of Legends calling other games bad? You know what you just made final, you're chances at finding a job. Be right back.

    • Curtis Maunder

      I love laughing in the bandwagon as much as the next person. But shit, don't act like a whole message board is a single person.

    • Djavan Fernando well i play league of legends because I have fun playing games, sure its not the greatest game but its better than SWTOR because Riot actually likes to fix their games and try and make it better while BioWare makes a shit game and charges extremely high amounts of money for it. So don't hate because SWTOR is a bad game and /v/ recognizes that.

    • Curtis Maunder /v/ is an entire message board that agree's that SWTOR is awful as much as anyone who knows what a good game is.

    • Curtis Maunder

      '/v/' by majority also agrees that Skyrim is a good game and Kawata Shojou is infact a game (it's a Visual NOVEL).

    • Ethan Peterson

      /v/ rates games 0/10 because /v/ secretly hates all video games.

    • Curtis Maunder i find this funny because Skyrim is the game of the year right? and Kawata Shojou is a game aswell as a visual novel.

    • Curtis Maunder

      Game of the year is subjective. In my opinion a visual novel doesnt constitute a game, if it had the elements present in dating sims (time management, stats, events) then I would consider it one. Making a couple choices after text isnt a gameplay mechanic. Nothing against VNs, read a shit-ton.

  • The problem I have with this is that you used high res for the comparison shots despite there being no option to use that setting anymore.

    • That was truly my fault if that is the case. Admittingly that pic does look better than what I see in-game, but then again I run everything at bare minimum specs so that my laptop will keep up. Everyone else I know runs it fine. I will definitely agree that Bioware isn't doing the community right if they are putting hi-res screens out for publicity if they're not available in-game.

    • Anders Mellon Skov Hermansen

      Considering Bioware is working on this feature I wouldn't disregard the comparison entirely. Their reasoning for not allowing the textures outside of cinematics was that it would overload machines on places with many players.

      A valid argument to be sure – but it doesn't excuse not having the option available for those of us stubborn enough to run with them on anyway. So 50/50 imo.

  • But it really does suck.

  • "Internet Trolls" didn't destroy TOR, Bioware did that to their own game by making completely false promises and hyping themselves up beyond belief only to deliver a poor-mans WoW. Not only that, but the mainstream media played us all along (especially that 9.5 AUSgamers "review"). Keep in mind the people that gave TOR high scores and look at the scores those same people gave to Dragon Age II… and we all know how THAT game turned out…

    There have been many, MANY constructive posts on the official TOR forums about how this game needs massive improvements, or how it lacks very basic features (some of which are industry standard) like a Combat Log. It's like shipping an FPS without a Heads-Up Display, and not even one that's displayed on your character or your gun, it's just not there at all. Sounds stupid, right? So why is it acceptable for a game in 2012 to be shipped without the basic fundamentals that have defined the genre for decades? When this and other topics are brought up on the official forums, the first responses are usually "TL;DR" or the classic "GO BACK TO WoW IF YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH xD" followed by a slew of unnecessary hate.

    To top it off, they're lead by James Ohlen who, as of late, seems to be trying to steal the "how much bullshit can I spew out in interviews before I get called out on it" crown from Peter Molyneux. Almost everything he says is a flat out fabrication…

    ("We also do surveys within the game. We get players to talk about the game and explain what they like and what they don't like." Source: IGN)… or completely contradicting…

    ("The other challenge was to live up to and push beyond the expectations that MMO games like World of WarCraft have created. Players aren't going to understand if you don't have industry standard features." Source: IGN).

    The guy is completely full of himself and it's amazing that nobody has called him out on it yet. Lest I link you to the video "Bioware Making Fun Of Their Own Game"…

    These issues I bring up are really only scratching the surface. A lot of the games problems can simply be traced back to the Hero Engine that they are using… but christ, that's a whole other topic altogether.

    Believe it or not, a lot of the people you call 'trolls' never wanted this game to fail, they simply wished they got something more from something that calls itself a AAA MMORPG. The real trolls are the ones that defend every single action Bioware makes no matter how ridiculous or absurd it may be. These are the true people to blame on why this game fails. When you disallow and brush aside constructive posts and legitimate criticism which have popped up day after day after day since at least mid-Beta, you get stuck with a stale product that will never progress anywhere. The drones claiming that the trolls would leave after the free month was over were wrong, they never realized that they themselves were the trolls.

    TL;DR: The game isn't bad because "4chan raided metacritic" or whatever today's excuse is, you'll notice most devs never even fucking care, but Bioware does because they're fucking babies.

  • Excellent article. I wish it had a chance of helping, but now that TOR hate is practically a meme there isn't much we can do except enjoy playing it and trust that those interested in playing it will try it rather than going to message boards for their information.

  • This game would have been absolutely incredible 6 years ago, but after a long run of WoW and WoW-alikes, it's mediocre. Add to that the issues with textures, the initial input lag (which has been fixed, along with some framerat issues thankfully), early PVP imbalance issues, and the fact that it's one of the only sub MMOs in its class that's coming out before a very hyped non-sub MMO, and it's basically in a fishbowl. Little things that trip it up, a lack of any innovation that I've seen, and Bioware's more recent track record were all a recipe for disaster as far as launches go.

    6 years ago, this would have been an absolute smash. Now, it's just doing "okay" as I hear, which to me says it's going to go free to play within a year or two considering the resources that went into it and the competition it's about to see from GW2, TERA, and the next WoW expansion. Out of a group of friends I've kept since we quit playing WoW, there are are two who play it, and they love it. The rest of us are waiting on GW2.

    There was actually a lot of hype for this game before it was released, believe it or not. I was actually looking forward to it coming out, but after playing Rift and getting more or less bored with it 3 months in, I decided to wait and see how this one played out. Everything I've heard back is telling me to stay away until they do some serious work, and even then I might be too busy playing GW2 to care much.

    Also, to go back to the textures, some of them are embarrassingly bad for a game released in 2012. That really can't be overstated for a game with so much visual potential as a Star Wars IP.

    All that being said, your article wasn't a bad read. I do have to question your reliance on "professional" reviews. I really don't trust any of them on this, or any MMO, unless they have technical concerns to point out. Otherwise, your experience is going to be almost entirely dependent on the social aspect of the game, which has little or nothing to do with what a professional reviewer is going to say. Especially when a lot of reviews were coming in from special copies with hi-rez textures enabled.

  • David Allen Braymer

    Let's completely ignore all of the legitimate flaws the game possesses, and blame anything negative on trolls. That'll show 'em.

    • Except the game has lots, and lots, of legitimate flaws, which I don't try to hide, and am going to lambast the game when I make a review for it. The Old Republic is MEDIOCRE for what it should be. It's just not the terrible, blunder of the century it's made out to be. It deserves a seven or an eight. It gets a 0 or a 1 by those who hate it. That's what I'm trying to point out. Thanks.

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper I can't be the only one to hate the gaming scoring system. 0 = terrible game, 5= average game, 10 = impossibly incredible game. Mediocre would be a 3 or a 4.

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper 7 or 8 isn't mediocre. 5/10 is a mediocre.

    • Would also like to note; for a regular game, sure, being mediocre isn't blunder of the century. But when you have a mediocre game that comes from one of the biggest game developers, that has spent over $200million making the game (some higher estimates put it at above $500m), and when many of those problems were from issues such as outdated and unoptimized engine, numerous glitches and exploits, and horrific customer support; then maybe we do have a gaming blunder of the century.

    • While I'm not pulling up a dictionary to argue semantics about wordplay, I probably misspoke when I said mediocre. I admittingly do adhere to 5 being crap, seven being mediocre, and 10 being perfect, though I shouldn't. The Old Republic is lackluster and nothing revolutionary or spectacular.

    • Gareth Jones

      You mean, like Skyrim?

    • Gareth Jones If that's about them both being lackluster, I'd agree.

    • Gareth Jones If that's about them both being lackluster, I'd agree.

  • You seem like a troll trying to make the Tortanic people mad, while not coming off as a biodrone. I gotta respect the amount of work that this takes, I mean writing an entire article? That takes a wee bit of time. But it was very obvious, so 2/10.

  • Have you ever thought that SW:TOR is failing because it is actually a bad game?

  • Timothy Shepard

    What a poorly written post with no real structure defending an equally shitty game with no original structure.

  • Timothy Shepard

    What a poorly written post with no real structure defending an equally shitty game with no original structure.

  • Martin VanderHoeven

    -Bioware lies about medium-high texture UI issues.
    -Endgame armor models clip through themselves.
    -Skills are almost literally cut and pasted from WoW.
    -Fucked up raid finder.
    -North Korea-esque forum moderation.
    -Outsourced and useless customer support.
    -Input delay
    -Broken PvP (it's more profitable not to fight the enemy).
    -Contradictions between interviews and gameplay.
    -Poor animations
    -Dancing to survive combat.

    If you want to totally circumvent these issues and still try to pass this article off as fair, go ahead, but shit like the ridiculous forum moderation and customer support simply can't be ignored.

    • If you want to try to troll, be under 300 pounds. Lard ass.

    • Jurij Vesenjak

      Djavan Fernando 0/10

    • Martin VanderHoeven

      Djavan Fernando Brazil?
      BR?
      HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
      GIBE MONI I REPOT U

    • Glad to see the BlizzardDrones are so good at arguing that they have to resort to Ad hominem. Go back to WoW you sulky fatass.

    • Zach Greninger

      It's time to sit down and all cry ourselves to sleep for Martin. Everything is just so bad and broken for him! Bioware must pay!

    • -They came out and explained med-high textures
      -Haven't seen much end game raid gear for long since I dislike the endgame altogether
      -Talent trees aren't Blizzard's invention, nor exclusive to WoW
      -No raid finder
      -I avoid forums, no comment
      -Welcome to the average CSR for everything that isnt super established or successful
      -World PvP only, was fixed but still broken for a new reason, pop imbalance
      -Cite a specific example, because most of them are decent or pretty damn good.
      -This was called out as fake and fixed, either way this doesnt exist.

      The fact of the matter is that it was expected to be ground breaking, and came out as just another MMO, its got bugs, but the launch wasn't too bad for a first MMO. It needs a lot of work, but the core issue with this is the 10 – 0 ratings. It's not a 10, its not a 0, its a number between it, probably a 7 which is average.

    • Martin VanderHoeven

      Eric Hawkins I mean, I'm not trying to hail it as the end of MMOs. If you're enjoying it, I'm not telling you not to, but there are definitely shortcomings. When I say skills, I mean spells, not talent trees, namely this shit (http://imgur.com/4m896). Also, with the high-med texture thing, I thought the deal was that there were hi-res textures in beta that worked just fine, and they made a BS story about it being too intensive. When I mention developers contradicting themselves, the thing that stands out most in my mind is that one interview, in the picture, where James Ohlen basically says "we're not going to have a mass of players whaling on a single enemy for boss battles" and that's exactly what they do.
      I digress. It's not an inherently bad game, but that Bioware zealots fawn over it like it's something radiantly new just irks me.

    • Martin VanderHoeven Now I'm wondering why it still feels so much different when playing a Juggernaut to playing a Prot Warri. Seriously, if I really want to I can compare WoW to Maple Story and edited right I can make them look like the same fucking game.
      I haven't played Swtor that much, but I played WoW enough to tell that it's not the "same" game.

      Actually I played enough of these "WoW Clones" and everyone sucked balls, WoW had me playing for 5 years. Now think about that…

    • Josh Roal

      I like how everyone people say "They copy the skills from another game" There are only so many logical skills you can have in the game to contribute to combat with logical functionality(gap closers, ranged attacks, aoe attacks, melee abilities, stealth, healing, ect). Kinda like from the movie social network "Look, a guy who builds a nice chair doesn't owe money to everyone who ever has built a chair, okay?" WoW wasnt the first mmo so by your reasoning WoW copied skills straight from everquest or ultima, ect.

    • Martin VanderHoeven

      Josh Roal Your argument has validity – I'm not claiming that World of Warcraft is 100% originial. It drew a lot from EverQuest, if I'm not mistaken. I don't really agree that there are just natural combat niches that just HAPPEN to create identical skills, but I see your point. My point is that TOR doesn't bring anything new to the table, and with the production budget as high as it was, I just expected more. I will say, though, I was impressed by the voice acting in TOR. Definitely adds immersion to the plot.

    • Martin VanderHoeven The problem is, even GW2 doesn't bring THE new thing to the market. They just added something interesting but it didn't revolutionize the MMORPG scene. It's hard to find anything new in the market at the moment since there are so many different games. It feels like everything appeared somewhere, you need to completly reinvent the MMORPG genre to find something new.

    • Martin VanderHoeven

      Amir El Sayed Yeah, I feel like that's a universal problem with MMOs now – a system has been established that works so well that developers are afraid to deviate from it. I guess I'm a little too hard on TOR, but it's more at Bioware than the game itself. Planetside 2 looks promising, eh?

    • Djavan Fernando Shit Brazilian turd troll is shit.

  • Everyone is hating on the game because either:

    a) The game is actually pure shit.
    or
    b) Almost every single person on the internet is involved in a megaconspiracy to bring this game down for some reason.

    It is obviously the latter. /sarcasm

    • I stated, hopefully in obvious jest, that a 'fourth' of the internet was behind this. All I wanted to point out was that there is a very vocal group, and I have no idea their numbers, that want to trash the game. If my article didn't prove that, between lies on Bioware's forums, dragging scores down, and comparing outdated, purposefully easy bossfights in beta to current gameplay, I don't know what will. But thanks for the comment.

    • Aren't Bioware's forums restricted to people who paid for the game? I doubt that anyone would spend 75$ to troll. As for the dragged scores, it happened with a lot of other games aswell, like Portal 2 and DE:HR, but did they flop? No, the developers simply didn't give a shit and even won a couple of awards.

      I believe the most accurate way to measure the actual quality of the game is to measure the retention rate, which is around 40% (not sure) at the moment. This number doesn't really weight in Bioware's favor.

      I do not think that the "vocal group" has as much marketing power as the big reviewing sites, most of those sites gave TOR a suspicious 8+, that alone convinced thousands of people to check out the game, and yet we have several empty planets across every server, because those people left long ago.

      To be honest I didn't really read your article until the end, there was a part where you went all "look guys, there's X guys in metacritic who are bashing the game for no reason, they are all jumping on the bandwagon, of course, therefore everyone criticizing TOR is doing the same, meanwhile let me finish the article mentioning that all those professional reviewers who gave the game 7-8-9/10 are completely entitled to their opinion and aren't also bandwagoning/being bought in the slightest"

    • "Aren't Bioware's forums restricted to people who paid for the game?"
      No, that's wrong, you fucking retard.

    • Djavan Fernando in case you didn't notice, it was a fucking question, you can tell by the question mark at the end.

      Oh boy you sure look more retarded than me now, fucker.

      Anyway, I meant the SWTOR forums.

    • lol the little kids that started playing wow at a ageof 12.

      This is what they grew up to be apparently. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

    • Djavan Fernando Im sorry, but the SWTOR forums ARE restricted to those who have bought the game, and most of the shit that goes down is in fact on those forums. If you have paid any attention to the forum you will see that the people defending the game are now the minority (not by a large margin), so are you trying to say that the people who bought the game just to troll the forums actually outnumber the people who bought it to enjoy it?

    • No. I'm saying that I've been posting on the SWTOR forums without having purchased the game. Are you saying you have a 3 inch dick? (See, I can be a fucktard too)

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper, you do have to buy the game to post on the SWTOR forums (but not on bioware general forums).

    • Michael Galuardi

      Nytloc Lightkeeper It's a meme. There is no coordination. You could say the 'vocal group' is a random hivemind/collective, but only if you concede that the hivemind has unfathomably strong A.D.D.

    • Diogo Batista Come to Peragus Mining Facility.. We have a lot of portuguese in our guild there :P

    • Find me a single reliable source which shows the retention rate. One. Not that I wouldn't expect people to claim that whatever the site was is stacking numbers because they've been paid off by Bioware if it's higher.

    • Fryanklyn Rynkland No you dont have to pay to be on the SWTOR forums, there are people on there all of the time that have never even been in the game

    • IGN posted the current retention rates yesterday, and they are approximately double your claimed 40%.

    • IGN? You mean the guys who gave TOR a 9.0? Yeah sure IGN's credibility is through the roof at the moment. /sarcarsm

      Didn't TOR sell 2 million copies in the US alone? If you claim that they have a 80% retention rate, that would mean they have around 1.6 million subs at the moment, which they do not. They don't even have 1 million.

      Source : http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/totals

      Also this is the last post I will make, I won't waste more energy with this game.

    • They told their stockholders that they in fact have 1.6 million subscribers.

  • Aaron Biggs

    Oh wow maybe numerous amounts of people don't like it because it's bad. What an engaging thought.

  • "It doesn’t deserve anything below a 6 by even the staunchest critics; however, I’m sick of being unable to hold a basic conversation…"
    Doesn't seem like you're much interested in holding said conversation anyway, if you've already decided what the minimum accepted grade is for the game.

    A fanboi reviewing his game and hating on trolls/haters while playing the professional reviewer card (whatever a professional reviewer might be)… that's original.

    It's back to MMO Reviewing 101 for you, sir. And take off the pointy thin-foil hat, their is no "internetz master plan to kill swtor" just a bad game getting bad customer reviews – you know, those people that actually paid to play this game?

    • While I was definitely a bit authoritive in stating it doesn't deserve less than a six, I did intend that to be my opinion. I can't just go around putting 'in my opinion' in front of everything I write, or it'd get even more wordy than it currently is. Which is a bad thing, so far as I can tell based on everyone's comments.

    • Of course it's your opinion, you wrote it – I for one find the whole "it's your opinion not fact" argument a bit silly, so I agree with you on that. But it does stand out in the context and tone of your review.

  • Very nicely put. The amount of hate this game is getting just shows how immature the kind of people on 4chan and other sites really are. I don't care for Call of Duty that much but I don't make it my life work to ruin the game. These people know that TOR can damage WOW's numbers over time and they want WOW to stay on top. TOR isn't perfect but its a lot more fun then WOW.

    • That's what everyone keeps on thinking. New MMO's are going to overrule WoW. Why do people keep on saying this? WoW subscriptions will stay higher then SW:ToR, no matter what. Atleast, until Blizzard announces what project "Titan" is going to be, the new MMO's will be hyped. Blizzard will rule the internet games for a long time and has been that way for a long time already.

    • Dominic Spaargaren WOW will have its sub numbers go down and nother MMO take over at some point. It may be Titan or something else but in 15 to 20 years WOW is not going to still be on top.

  • "People pumping their bias into the ratings of Metacritic" Holy fuck I shit myself laughing and stopped reading there. Shut up biodrone, and go play your 68th coming of WoW with half the innovation and twice the gameplay issues.

  • >inb4 in OP.
    You clearly don't understand the basic concepts of logic. I like how you did not mention the removal of the un-subscribe button.

    • Can't argue with that. He also lacks the ability to decipher context clues. However, the point the article was not as much a defense of the game's 'greatness' or about how 'awful' it is, but rather to point out the crowd of hate it has and that he feels the 0 scores are unwarranted.

    • Matthew Steven Coulter

      Well did he ever thought what motive could be behind this? No. It has nothing to do with trolling. This is not for amusement, this is how we reward the "hard" work the developers have done, false info spreading or not. Misinformation and "trolling" is a tool to get noticed and let the developer wake the fuck up and start doing good work again.

    • Wallace Crooks

      I don't disagree with your point, but I also think that there are better ways to make your point. For instance, you could write an article, produce a video, or produce a song with information that is an honest and sincere opinion for people who follow you. Fighting misinformation and dishonesty with misinformation and dishonesty doesn't say much for either side. I definitely value your input and if you'd like to write a counter argument for this, I'll happily publish it.

  • Douglas Lee

    Game is awful. This article is worse. Boring drivel.

  • Asunder Magazine?

    Must have cost Bioware a whopping 5 bucks for this paid off article. Guess they can't afford sites like IGN after this blunder.

  • You spoke of pretty much everything except WHY you believe people are out to get this game. Reading this article you'd think the entire internet was taking crazy pills, but time will tell.

  • Martin Pugh

    Maybe if they made a good game it wouldn't be the laughing stock of /v/…

  • I love how you doesn't address the meat of the criticism AT ALL and then royally fuck up your defence of the difficulty.

    >you can't test mechanics if people die.
    >see look how much harder he is, some people in the raid lose a quarter of their hp.

    Have a look at the real criticism, behind the jokes, and you'll see why all the jokes exist.

  • Furthermore, the reason people have been giving it and DA2 0s is due to the ridiculously transparent corruption in the gaming review industry. Dragon Age 2 and ToR are terrible games and do not come anywhere near close to deserving the scores they get in the mainstream media(which they get because journalism sites are dependent on exclusives and free shit from developers in order to attract marketshare).

    Maybe they should just try writing stupid articles that attract negative attention from the broader internet so that they can capitalise on people who want to get angry or laugh at idiots. That strategy seems to work well for some sites!

  • I think the drop in subscriptions and players pretty much contradicts this article. People are voting with their wallets and bioware/EA are trying to claim it is due to "trolling" rather than admit they messed up.

    • Also how objective of an opinion can we expect from the same author of the article "Why I’m Excited For The Old Republic, and Why You Should Be Too" ?

    • Mike Higbee Way to bring up old shit. Lol. Seriously, it is very possible to expect an objective opinion from someone who was listening to hype and liking what he was hearing before the game released. It doesn't undercut someone to be excited about a game based on the claims of a creator before it's released. Coltyn, isn't making the case that the game is great, he's pointing out that he doesn't believe that the game deserves the hate it receives.

    • Matthew Steven Coulter here's the thing, it didn't deliver on those claims, is still bug ridden as admitted even by this article, has a multitude of legitimate problems neither being addressed by bioware or the company they outsourced their tech support to, claims to be a MMO but is best played single player, and yet "But by far the professional reviewers have gotten it right, with mostly 9s, 8s, and a few logical 7s for its grading." This is why people counterbalance with 0s on sites like metacritic since so called gaming journalists won't give honest reviews anymore due to fear of being blackballed by the companies they're reviewing. Also if it's simply "trolling" then explain my initial comment of subscribers dropping and a lack of people populating servers.

    • Mike Higbee Well if it makes you feel any better, we haven't even been balled by video game (or any other form of media) companies yet. No fear of being blackballed here my friend. The author's opinion is just that, his opinion. No one, on our site at least, is claiming that the game is perfect. We even have several articles, by Jaded, pointing out flaws and issues within the organic aspects of the game. The game is barely into it's life at this point and should be given time for it to be fully hammered out. If you disagree with that, that's fine and you and many others don't have to pay into EA's g-string.

      However, I do stand by the author's larger point that the game doesn't warrant zeros, even if it is the case that these zeros represent a counter balance. In fact, the counter balance idea is one that simply comes across as flawed as a way to fight corrupted scores. It seems that fighting padded or fluff reviews with reviews that aren't entirely honest either is just as bad as the fluff reviews themselves.

      You believe that other game journalists are padding their reviews, write an article stating your claims and I'll publish it (as long as you can back up your claims). You come across as a good writer and could probably make some valid points given the opportunity and platform.

    • Matthew Steven Coulter I already have had offers from other sites, but alas I'm not a fan of writing, the counterbalance is valid though as you also get people blindly giving companies products 10s in the user reviews. The same can be said about "biodrones" on their forums when people bring up valid complaints and immediately get labeled as trolls, told if they don't like it go back to WoW, or have an unfortunate meeting with mister Stanley Woo. The thing is TOR had a beta stage in which these bugs should have been ironed out pre-release. What you essentially have now is people paying a monthly fee while these bugs get ironed out.

    • Mike Higbee No worries. If you change your mind, you know where we are.

      To your first point, I still feel like the counter balance method is as dishonest as the people you are 'fighting' against. I like to think that people lump the perfect 10s that come across as fluff and the 0s that come across as trolling into the same category, both of which is somewhat offensive to those of us who are trying to give our honest opinion or objective overview (journalists try to create a balance of these two). It's our job to tell you if a game is fun and/or worth your money. Some journalists nit pick and others just look at a games face value. As a reader, It's your choice which reviewers and style to subscribe to.

      To your second point, I think that could be said for both sides of the 'argument.' There are clearly fanboys and trolls on both sides and those are the individuals who I believe stoke the flames.

      To the third point, It's actually pretty common for MMOs to be released in somewhat of an unfinished state. MMOs also cost considerably more to develop. Companies developing MMOs have to make a decision to either release as is or try to develop it into what they imagine is a fully realized game. The problem with releasing later than sooner, is that the game could be considerably less organic. Bioware has an opportunity to completely overhaul the game over time in its current state, much like WoW has since its release. Do I think that's right? I'm not sure. There were several opportunities for people interested in the game to have a go at it before release. The final two beta weekends where basically open to everyone who signed up on Bioware's ToR site. I also feel that it's generally understood at this point in time, by most gamers at least, that early adoption of an MMO is almost always a let down in terms of bugs and unfulfilled or unrealized promises.

      Having played the game fairly extensively myself (though to a considerably lesser degree than people who really love the game), I can say that the game is far from unplayable. It's not always enjoyable and oftentimes I find myself somewhat bored when I'm playing by myself. There are quite a few bugs here and there, but it's also a massive title. Look at how well the Fallout III and New Vegas and Elder Scroll IV and V were received and they've all had their fair share of bugs that absolutely should not have been in a release title.

    • Matthew Steven Coulter the difference with bethesda is how they handle it and they actually admit to the problems, they also aren't charging $15 a month while they iron out the issues.

    • Mike Higbee Can't argue with that.

    • Mike Higbee Do you really think Bioware thinks everything is rosy with this game? There's at least one downtime per week for them to introduce bug fixes.

    • How would you know what the "Significant" amount of subscriptions would be before February 20th?
      After the 30 free days, the only people who have subscribed are on their first month.

    • James V Feragola seeing as they already shelled out $60 for the game i'd say they planned on subscribing in the first place, but have changed their mind since the trial ended

  • What you don't get is that this unofficial Bioware-hating community is doing the videogaming community -and industry- a great service, by trolling under the table a game that is basically :
    - A 15$/month single-player experience with online interaction
    - A catastrophic mess of retarded lolrandum and st4k1ll3r grimdark writing
    - A lesson in completely failed cartoony design
    It's like Bioware spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to take their customers for fools, just like Lucas shafted all Star Wars fans when he made EPs 1, 2 and 3. A company that spends so much time and money on such a pathetic product that rapes anew an already raped IP, deserves nothing but ridicule.

    • Gareth Jones

      So don't pay for any of it and move on. They wouldn't keep extending the franchise if people didn't buy it. And people buy it because they enjoy it, myself included. What's the problem?

    • Gareth Jones It's like the people who hate on popular music. They're so self-involved that they simply CANNOT believe that other people like different types of things.

  • Steven Scheele

    Personally, I enjoy the game and I don't really care for what the haters on the internet say. /shrug

  • I wonder,
    for this article… did he accept payment in kisses?

  • why are you blaming 4chan, shouldn't it be 9gag and reddit? (lol)
    what if its just your opinion and the game actually sucks.
    im leaning towards "paid reviewer".

    • I actually had never gone to Reddit before my post concerning this article was put up there. So I had no idea how it thought of the game as a collective. Interestingly, since you seem to think that Reddit was the main problem, I've gotten the most positive (and in my opinion, intelligent, even the critical ones) posts from the site.

  • What, you're a fag. And I know what I'm talking about, I'm a fagtologist.

  • so the hate and finger-pointing is a little unfair but in the end it just balances out the moronic hype and the completely uncritical reviews this game got. Its WoW in space and given the fact that WoW came out 7 years ago there is no arguing that it should be more than that.

  • "People rated this game differently than I would have." Wow! Awesome article!

  • Holy fuck, how can you legitimately claim it's a mass conspiracy that BioWare games seem to fail as of late. Do you purposely ignore the evidence? Mass Effect 2 was nothing but a friendship simulator, Dragon Age 2 was, well, do I really need to go into this one?

    Looking past the VAST amount of technical issues, the stories (which was the main selling point) are all ridden with clichés and predictability. They're all fucking pathetic and ridiculous. Retconning Kotor 2 was such a bad decision. Why in the FUCK did they think it was a good idea to scrap the moral ambiguity that Obsidian had rolling? It's like BioWare hates money.

    Awful article, awful game, more than likely awful OP. Start making informed opinions, please.

    • P.S I hated everything post NWN, but using ME2 and DA2 as examples makes my argument much more coherent.

    • Andrew Racine I believe he actually addressed some of those issues in the article that he wrote. He even agreed to a degree with what you are saying. The thing is, he isn't trying to defend Bioware or even just this game, he is trying to say that the overabundance of hatred from inadequate sources isn't justified. Read the whole article before destroying it.

    • David Fink Barrentine Read it thoroughly. It's nothing but a feigned appeal to sensibility. At the end of the day, OP is still defending BioWare. This isn't a grey area; the game is objectively garbage with no redeeming qualities. To say otherwise is to delude yourself.

      Read the whole article before masking a thinly veiled defence.

    • Also, the hatred is completely warranted.

    • Andrew Racine I'm not making a thinly veiled defense here. I personally haven't played the game and find the last two games I played by the company to be tripe. I am simply mediating an argument by trying to point out that some of your complaints aren't commenting on what the article is about in general context. Yes he does state his opinion on the game, as you are doing quite nicely yourself, but he doesn't jump into bed with Bioware whole hog.

    • David Fink Barrentine How can you mediate when you don't have an objective opinion? That's like playing judge when you have no sense of the law.

      Do yourself a favour; pick-up this garbage, play for a while, THEN you'll see how the hate is warranted. It's an embarrassing mess of a game, from coding to story.

      There's no reason to give BioWare ANY quarter. Would you play fence sitter if someone delivered a pizza half finished, in another store's box? Of course not; we're the consumer and they're the corporation.

      It's funny how quickly BioWare went from my favourite devs to my most hated. Literally happened over night :<

    • Andrew Racine Which game started that swift change for you? The first one I got excited over was Dragon Age and I was just let down. The characters were mere stereotypes with no real inflection or personality aside from basic character tropes. I haven't really been impressed by most of the stuff since then, which is honestly one of the reasons I didn't pick this up. The next reason, and get ready for this because it isn't heard very often anymore, I'm still rockin the dial up connection with a whopping 26k download speed at max.

    • Andrew Racine Which game started that swift change for you? The first one I got excited over was Dragon Age and I was just let down. The characters were mere stereotypes with no real inflection or personality aside from basic character tropes. I haven't really been impressed by most of the stuff since then, which is honestly one of the reasons I didn't pick this up. The next reason, and get ready for this because it isn't heard very often anymore, I'm still rockin the dial up connection with a whopping 26k download speed at max.

  • Casey Brown

    See, what we have here is a collective of haters. That's all good, though. Haters going to hate. I guess Nickelback gave up the "lets hate on it because that's what's in" mantle.

    Yes, the game is flawed. They're also fixing it. WoW was flawed in the beginning. Blizzard fixed it. If you don't like it, don't play it. Every time I review a game, I give it a rating based upon how much fun I had playing it (unless there's a gaping, glowering asshole of a flaw staring you in the face). I'm having fun playing the game, despite everyone's complaints and the game's current flaws.

    When you bought the game it included the first month's subscription fee. One month is clearly enough time to determine whether you're going to like the game or not. The cost of the game is also the cost of buying any other game, which you're probably going to play for a month (Gears of War, Halo, Portal, etc.). If you had a problem with the game, did you a.) stop playing and unsubscribe or b.) keep playing and pay the subscription fee?

    If a.), shut the fuck up about it. Sometimes a game comes out that you didn't like. You paid for the game and ended up not liking it. This is no different. Sell your account to someone and be done with it. It's just like selling a used game to someone. Someone will want to buy it, especially if you made some progress.

    You cut your losses. Good for you. The only people who really have a right to complain at this point are EA execs and shareholders because they're the only ones with something further to lose. As far as the player goes, you win some and you lose some. You consider this a loss.

    If b.), Why? Why would you do that? Why did you continue to push dollar bills into Bioware/EA's g-string after mercilessly complaining about how you can see crabs crawling around in its overgrown bush? That's like saying "Man, I fucking hate Sam's Club, so instead of letting my membership lapse and switching to Costco (this can be whatever MMO you prefer) I'm going to keep paying the Sam's Club subscription in order to make my complaints seem more substantiated."

    Stop bitching about the damn game. Yes, WoW came first. Yes, WoW is doing it better. WoW is also on its last fucking leg; they're making an expansion with fucking kung-fu pandas. That's fucking retarded.

    Who is going to take over after WoW is done? Bioware/EA seems to think it's them. Give them more than a month and a half to get everything working right.

    • "If you don't like something, don't talk about it or mention it again. If you thought the internet was a place where you could have a free exchange about something, you're wrong! We are only allowed to talk about things we like and enjoy because Casey Brown, king of the internet, hath so decreed!"

      How about people can do whatever they want and you come to terms with the idea that people can hold different ideas than you? I'm sure you just wrote this out as a rant and didn't even really consider any implications of what you're saying, so I won't hold it against you that what you said is absolutely idiotic and backwards.

    • Casey Brown

      Dylan, re-read your first paragraph. Now re-read, with emphasis, your second paragraph.

      The king of the internet demands it!

    • Grant Kluge

      Casey Brown It's ok… he goes to community college

    • You're right, I should be more open to your fascist tendencies for people's video game opinions. Granted I never said you should "shut the fuck up" if you want to stand by your "if you paid for the game and didn't like it you should just shut up and cut your losses," rather, I said you should come to terms with the idea that people won't. You're free to think whatever fucked up and stupid ideas you want, but only as free as I am able to call you a fucking moron about it. Your position appears to be: "Stop bitching about the damn game" as it appears for the reason that you enjoy it and don't like to hear people call it out on its flaws. My position (as I intend it) is: "How about people can do whatever they want and you come to terms with the idea that people can hold different ideas than you?"

      Are you really so dense that you can't tell the difference between me telling you to deal with the fact that people disagree and telling you to shut the fuck up or are you just being a shitty debater to "MAKE ME SO MAD LOLOLOL"?

    • Casey Brown

      Dylan Saul First, it's my site so my opinion is what matters. Each time you come back here to re-comment is another dollar in my pocket. Thanks for the revenue, jackass! I don't care what you say. The fact that you say anything at all is good enough for me, you dumb fucking tool. Welcome to the internet.

      I know the game is flawed and acknowledge that. I even write a column about it. Of course you wouldn't know that in your ignorance. You say I'm a shitty debater when you didn't fully research your claim. Nice.

      The point I was trying to make was "you have no reason to bitch about the game after you've already parted ways with it (or probably should part ways with it instead of wasting your money on what you think is a shitty game)," but I guess you didn't catch that. Maybe that's why you're at a community college.

    • You have every reason to bitch about the game after you've parted ways, because wanting to is a good enough reason in this situation. But okay, continue to write half-assed, unedited, shallow articles about how people need to stop ripping on a game you enjoy.

      Oh wait, let me look on your Facebook. OMG u studied philosophy lol! i hurd sheridan high school is poopy lmao! Grow up. (There's another dollar, maybe your site will break even soon!)

    • Casey Brown

      Dylan Saul On that note, your argument is dead in the water. Thanks for the ad revenue!

    • Dylan Saul First, I can see no reason why you couldn't bitch about it after the fact. It's something that we all do, especially when we play games we don't like.

      Second, you obviously still haven't looked at his State of the Union articles, because he rips on the game quite a lot.

      Third, I would kill for our site to break even. One day… one day. On that one day, I'll think back to this conversation and thank you for your contribution.

      Lastly, congrats on allowing yourself to be trolled Dylan. You're a better man for it. Casey is a pretty harsh reviewer on our site, who is somewhat known using colorful language and hilarious analogies to explain his general disgust for modern games.

    • Dylan Saul First, I can see no reason why you couldn't bitch about it after the fact. It's something that we all do, especially when we play games we don't like.

      Second, you obviously still haven't looked at his State of the Union articles, because he rips on the game quite a lot.

      Third, I would kill for our site to break even. One day… one day. On that one day, I'll think back to this conversation and thank you for your contribution.

      Lastly, congrats on allowing yourself to be trolled Dylan. You're a better man for it. Casey is a pretty harsh reviewer on our site, who is somewhat known using colorful language and hilarious analogies to explain his general disgust for modern games.

  • Fiskie Excel

    If you want your gaming magazine site to take off, you might as well revoke this article.

  • Sorry dear author, it's not the internet. Bioware does everything in their power to destroy their own reputation with every title they released after EA purchased them.

  • Bence Jandás

    you know, a game doesn't just get hate from thousands of people without any reason
    the fact that such an opposition exists means bioware had to fuck up somewhere, you can't just say haters gonna hate
    and also, metacritic and this "it doesn't deserve anything under 6" nonsense should seriously stop

    • I never said it didn't have reason. I said it had stupid reasons. Which I fully outlined in the article by showing the level of lies and misleading "facts" that people are willing to go to to downplay its importance.

  • Patrick Richard

    This article is bad and you should feel bad. I bought TORTANIC and I played it for 2 weeks before being completely bored. A fine storyline in a plain universe (I talk about the game not the franchise) is just not for me.

  • Logan Fistpunch Bushong

    95% of the comments on this article:
    DUR-HUR, U STOOPID BIODRONE I BET U GOT PAID 2 RITE DIS! DUR-HUR!

    In all honesty, anyone who believes an MMO should be perfect at launch is a fuckwad and waaaaay to idealist to be taken seriously. Videogames aren't magical experiences that are perfect in every way. Get the fuck over it.

  • Logan Fistpunch Bushong

    95% of the comments on this article:
    DUR-HUR, U STOOPID BIODRONE I BET U GOT PAID 2 RITE DIS! DUR-HUR!

    In all honesty, anyone who believes an MMO should be perfect at launch is a fuckwad and waaaaay to idealist to be taken seriously. Videogames aren't magical experiences that are perfect in every way. Get the fuck over it.

  • Shhhhh, do you hear it?

    Its the sound of extreme anal pain over a halfassed game.

  • What a laughable display of game journalism. I screen capped this just to show myself how to not write an article.

  • What about Bioware removing the unsubscribe button? And what about they banning a guy because he used that "I'm 12 and what is this" meme, saying that the game is made for 13yo and higher? I think the main problem here isn't if the game is good or bad, it's about Bioware not caring enough to help players who are having problems, or addressing them at all. Did they even aknowledge that Illum bug, at all?

    • Look, if you want to state that Bioware purposefully removed the button, fine, I can't prove they can't. I like to think that most people have higher standards than that, but I can't prove it just like you can't. Bioware's punishment of the meme usage is an unfortunate misunderstanding, I mean, seriously. Their boards are designed for a 13 and higher base, and are regulated accordingly. They can't be expected to keep up with our jokes. It's sad, and a little funny, but I don't get how it's their fault. And, yes, Illum's fixed.

    • Gareth Jones

      I'm guessing you missed the bit where the "im 12 guy" getting banned was fake?

    • I thought that one was legit, but I'm not sure. Still not their fault they don't get our underground jokes.

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper The "Im 12 guy" ban was a fake, and the unsubscribe button was only one of hundreds of other buttons on the site that disappeared for about 2 hours, they promptly fixed it. I am so sick and tried of all of these half brained morons not realizing that a mmo is going to be glitchy and bug ridden for a while after release, plus SWTOR had the smoothest launch i have ever witnessed in an MMO. Oh and for those of you that didnt see it, the numbers for TOR after the first month are down to only 1.7 mil from 2 mil sold. How is that fail??????

  • I'm glad you don't get any ad revenue from me, being as I blocked the ads on your page, because this is a terrible, terrible, highly bias piece. And that's coming from someone who really enjoys playing SWTOR with his guild.

  • Horrible article. If I was interested in argumentation at this level, Id go to the nearest kindergarten. When you write an article, you are supposed to have something to defend your opinions, something that the "haters" cant deny is true, OBJECTIVE and professional arguments. Instead we have an article filled with misinformation and bias that just screams "BIODRONE". You do have some valid points, but to make up for those you downplay several issues (Textures, responsiveness, balance, content) , completely warp some (metacritics) and ignore others (Ilum PvP? No rollbacks? Infinite Commendation bugs? INSTANCING! Hell, this list is HUGE.)

    You compare Skyrim to SWTOR, and you are right, Skyrim has a lot of bugs (and no, not more than SWTOR). You then say that no one hates Skyrim… You don't visit 4chan at all, do you? The website your article is supposedly about? Yes, people call is a buggy mess, its incredibly shallow and unrewarding. But its a singleplayer game. It has MODS. People fixed the bugs, upgraded the textures, and they will begin on content as soon as the CK is released. Players in SWTOR are forced to wait until Bioware does something about it, which they have proven incapable of.
    Ohh, and Skyrim didn't have a beta. Hopefully you know what betas are for.

    You say people overreact to the moderation in SWTOR. You are right there too. Most of the "bans" people complain about are in fact just warnings (that would lead to a ban if they continued). Now, for what reasons are these warnings issued? For helping people find the unsubscribe button, for using the AUCTION HOUSE, for using alt characters as banks, for going to zones that aren't made for your level (Would Blizzard ban their players if someone ran into Stranglethorn as a level 13? No, but Bioware would!) Obviously, none of these cases would put your lovely game in a bright light, so you chose not to mention these, but instead mention cases that were overreactions.

    Now lets go to metacritics, a major part of your article. You say during the first hours of SWTOR on metacritics, it got a lot of 0/10s. That's fact. What isn't fact is that we know who made these reviews. Heres another fact. When most people review a game, they rate it either an incredibly low rating, or an incredibly high rating. The reasoning is simple, they take a look at the current average, wanting to influence that average as much as possible in the direction they want, (say the game is rated 7, but they want it to be an 8, they rate it 10 so they have a larger impact.) You imply that people who rated the game the moment it came out for reviews haven't played the game, yet the beta had been going for some time. People already knew how the game was, in fact they thought it was BETTER than it actually was, because of the high res textures and armor color schemes that they removed upon release! Yet most people called it shit. So in order to show their disdain for the game, they try to bring the game down to "the rating it deserves". I do agree that most of these people created their accounts just to sink the score, but I also believe that the people who voted it down believed that the game deserved it. And then its the professional reviews.. It doesn't matter if they are paid off or not, they will rate if high regardless, because of the size of the company backing it, because of hype. Never will you see a major release get a low review from any major reviewers.
    In fact, I have adopted my own "rating system" for big games. 7-8 is shit. 9 is mediocre, 9.5 is good, 9.9 is really good, 10 is amazing. Its way more accurate.

    Now, I'm fairly sure I have debunked every point you made in your article. I haven't bothered to read through it more than once, so I might have missed something, but it really is a horrible article when another person can write an article about its flaws in less than 15 minutes.

    • Wanted to stop reading after you called me a Biodrone, since I almost couldn't be less of one, but I kept on. The POINT OF MY ARTICLE was that people are lying about the game, not an attempt at downplaying what flaws it does legitimately have. I will make a review for that later. It has lots of bugs (less than Skyrim, I know from experiencing dozens of hours of both). But that's not the point of the article. I wrote an article about the unfair lies of people regarding ToR. Stating unrelated things about the game is off-topic. If you write a paper about something, you stick to your topic sentence.

      You say it's okay for people to downgrade a game to give it a score it deserves, but when I point out those flaws in order to get it the score I think it deserves, suddenly it's bad. How hypocritical. And I have more faith than most in the gaming magazines and such professional reviews. If we can disregard any number of statements by them being 'paid off,' then everything just kind of falls apart.

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper Hmm, I dont recall saying what they did was ok, I just pointed out why they did it. Its natural behavior, not an intricate plot to ruin SWTOR. No hypocrisy involved at all.

      As for faith for gaming magazines and reviewers? None. The articles themselves are fine for the most part, which is pretty funny. They talk about how a game has bad this, MAJOR ISSUE that, then at the end they STILL give it a near perfect score. Unfortunately, the score is all that matters…

      As for the SWTOR vs Skyrim bug debate, SWTOR has more bugs because its way larger. You have probably played through most of Skyrims content by now, but you are nowhere near having experienced a hundredth of the content in SWTOR, be that alternate dialogue options, other races, using specific companions or a combination of all of these.

  • I find it appropriate that my Facebook language is set to Pirate. My choices for replies are to "Return Fire!" or "Arr!"

  • What does it take to get this kind of attention in the comic forums?

    • In this country, you gotta make the content first. Then when you get the content, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the attention.

    • In this country, you gotta make the content first. Then when you get the content, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the attention.

    • Kelly Mariomario Loubagelbagel McNaughton Then when you get the attention you never get to shower anymore. I see your point. Too many paparazzi trying to take pictures of you in the nude. Well it doesn't work here! I say we invite all the paparazzi in the shower with me and we take pictures of the nudist collective.

    • Staci Michelle Adams

      1. Pick a very controversial/inflammatory topic, and step on a few toes.

      2. (variation of 1) Choose a controversial topic, then let the readers assume you're referring to them/insulting them and accuse you of stepping on their toes.

      3. Pick any topic you want and creatively phrase the dialogue so that even though you're being completely ridiculously neutral, EVERYONE thinks you're either being extremely insulting and/or using euphemisms. (I predict some creative replies with this one.)

      4. Shine bright lights in everyone's eyes and start dancing (with jazz hands). Then tell them that verbal criticisms of your dancing ability are not allowed, but must instead be voiced on the comic forums.

    • Logan Fistpunch Bushong

      Kelly Mariomario Loubagelbagel McNaughton First you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women?

    • Kelly Mariomario Loubagelbagel McNaughton But Kell… With content comes power, with power comes attention, and with attention comes the DAHK SI-EEEEED.

  • Ofc, everyone thinking a dying game is bad must be trolling. I have a character at 50, 44 and a 27, so I've played more than enough to know it's shit. The overall design is just horribly boring, I have a hard time understanding peoples lack of fucking standard.

    I could have told you it would fail months before it released, but I was willing to give it a chance. Predicted the same shit would happen to all games in between WoW and now.

    • David Monteiro

      The game is shit but you've leveled 3 characters? Makes sense.

    • David Monteiro The sad thing is that you absolutely can't tell if this is a legit complaint, or another troll out to ruin a reputation through lies. There is literally no way to know, and the current state of the internet is to distrust everyone entirely because you can never tell who is who with the bonus of online anonymity. I could dislike an actor and tell someone about a terrible story of him getting drunk and saying racist slurs in a bar I was once at, but there's absolutely no way to confirm nor deny. It's sad, really.

  • Zach Greninger

    If you don't like it, don't play it. Simple. The game is no where near perfect. I've been yearning for quite a few changes to the game myself but to say the game is bad is just silly. Bioware is actively working on fixes, and updates to almost spectrum of the game for the patch in March. Y U SO MAD, NOOBS? ITS BEEN OUT FOR 2 MONTHS. QQ MOAR PREEZ.

  • The game JUST CAME OUT. Obviously none of you were there in Vanilla or even BC, shit sucked also. I'm sick of "HURRR WOW IS BETTER", WoW has been being developed for like 9 years. SWTOR for like 2-3. You guys can wait for 6 years and then compare it to WoW.

    • While I hate to give haters more ammo, The Old Republic had a much longer production time than that. I'm wanting to say it edged into five years, but don't quote me on that.

    • Nytloc Lightkeeper Yes, although it wasn't as much game development as writing the stories and planning everything. I still think WoW is a better game, I just find it ridiculous that people judge the game when the game isn't even complete yet. They shouldn't have released it.

  • Why does everyone hate DA2 and SW:TOR? Are they perfect. No. Are they good. In my opinion yes. Heck I enjoyed DA2 alot more then DA1. I mean I can understand these games aren't for everyone.

    For example someone listed a group of problems for ToR. Where as most of the responces I see here are It sucks without stating why it sucks or in reverse that it is good without stating why it is good.

    -Bioware lies about medium-high texture UI issues.
    -Endgame armor models clip through themselves.
    -Skills are almost literally cut and pasted from WoW.
    -Fucked up raid finder.
    -North Korea-esque forum moderation.
    -Outsourced and useless customer support.
    -Input delay
    -Broken PvP (it's more profitable not to fight the enemy).
    -Contradictions between interviews and gameplay.
    -Poor animations
    -Dancing to survive combat.

    Most of these have been acutal problems at some point in the game alot are fixed. In my own expirance I have had difficulty getting some of the companion quests to activate. The customer support didn't help much and I pretty much had to ignore the problem for a while until the quest finally activated randomly. But you know what while the one thing wasnt working I went a did other Quests and storylines and enjoyed them.

    Overall I find the issues with the game realativly minor and the game overall enjoyable. It seems to me people are nit-picking a bit and blowing the problems out of proportion.

    Why I like the game. Story. Its the pillar of the game if your not someone who enjoys a good read and prefers fact action based gameplay this game is not for you.

  • Kevin Edelman

    Nobody is complaining about the number of group instances. Its the fact there is nobody to do them with unless you always rely on a guildie to fly out and help. Its GREAT when you land on a planet with 4-5 zones and at most there are 20 there. Yep, MMO….

    • tl;dr, whats the gist?

    • Kevin Edelman

      Ryan Lively Basically, this guy doesn't like that other people have opinions different from his own about the game. He says it deserves to be a 7-9 out of 10 and anyone who says otherwise is just mad. Then he argues a bunch of points that nobody with legitimate criticisms of the game has held. Essentially he whines about trolls in forum posts, then tries to argue about why no game deserves a 0/10 save a choice few (which totally disregards the fact that a 6 or 7 is the new 0 for AAA games). He then follows up with beta footage compared to current footage. Which oh yea, spoiler by the by. But mostly this is a case of guy who is mad that not everybody likes the things he likes. Also the "I'm not fanboy of Bioware but they have my third favorite game franchise ever, however…." kind of feels like the game journalist equivalent, "I'm not a racist, I got tons of ethnic friends but….."

    • If you read the article I say relatively little on The Old Republic's merits. My concern was a cult of liars who fabricate false ban claims and post outdated footage of the game to hurt its reputation unfairly.

    • Also, as I stated before, while Knights is my third favorite game series, Bioware did the lesser of the two entries so far as I'm concerned, and I don't really consider The Old Republic an entry. It's more like a spiritual successor.

  • I played TOR, and I completely agree with people calling it an SPORPG.
    In TOR (at least during low levels) there's absolutely no need to go into dungeons. Let's take WoW as an example. In Westfall, there were like 3 or 4 questlines all leading into the Deadmines. In TOR, it's always only 1 single sidequest. Due to this, there's no real need to find a group and play through a dungeon. You can complete this game all by yourself and only miss 6 or 7 quests along the way for not doing dungeons.
    The focus on the story helps with this feeling. You feel special, you don't care about the others.
    I had fun playing TOR, but not the MMO kind of fun. More like the KotOR 3 kind of fun. And even for KotOR 3 I won't pay 15€ per month

    • I have to disagree just because I've had to wait far too long trying to get together Heroic Dailies with anyone. I have gotten groups of two or three together only to have it break down because we couldn't find a tank or something even after waiting 45 minutes or longer.

    • I have to disagree just because I've had to wait far too long trying to get together Heroic Dailies with anyone. I have gotten groups of two or three together only to have it break down because we couldn't find a tank or something even after waiting 45 minutes or longer.

  • So…yeah………go Star Wars.

  • Excellent writeup.

    I love how the comments hating on you for this mirror the ones against TOR in terms of how much they read your piece and how much they played TOR and general immaturity. They even threw in a few 'fanboi's at you as icing on the cake. If only they knew that people are laughing AT them, and not WITH them.

  • Jason Shamblin

    Love the game. I log on and consistently have a blast with end game PvE and PvP with my guild. Features and content will roll out as they get the game off the ground. UI customization, mods, combat logs and guild banks are all on the horizon, and will greatly enhance an already enjoyable experience. Unlike the majority of the twitter kids out there, who demand instant gratification in everything they experience, and take too much Adderall before posting online, I've developed patience. I easily got my money's worth already, and the monthly subscription doesn't deter me in the least. If it keeps the same team together constantly improving and expanding the game, then I'm happy to pay it. It is one of the perks of being gainfully employed.

  • Well, would you look at that TOR haters? You just wasted all those small caring little feelings you have on trashing a game instead of accomplishing something. Man, I am such a genius. Maybe I should go post where there are other people who enjoy arguing about TOR then tell them how must they wasted into something they thought might mean something to their ego? Yea! It's not like they care about me trashing them for liking something they only do as a hobby!

  • Gareth Jones

    I love this game. So does everyone else I know that has seen it. So we pay for it. If you don't like this game, don't pay for it, and don't play it. How hard is that?

  • Great article. It's human nature to want to see the big guy fail. It makes people feel successful by comparison. As far as the other comments in this article nobody likes to be called out for exactly what they're doing so this is pretty much tone expected. Keep up the good work.

  • Sarah Diskin

    So, I actually read the whole article, and then, amusingly, the very first post I read is "This game sucks!" Wonderful article NYTLOC.

  • Nytlock, if the criticisms of TOR are really just a troll hivemind, then how do you explain the fact that the game is losing subscriptions at an exponential rate? Do you think people are unsubbing from a game they just spent $60 on just to troll Bioware?

    • I explain it as a lie from Biohaters. Check IGN's post on the numbers that came out yesterday. 1.7 million out of over 2 million kept their subscription. Call it what you want, it's a loss, but far from exponential. You've been misinformed, or more likely, lied to.

  • Elff Yuvonne Watson

    I am so sick of all the pissing and moaning about "Biodrones." The fact that someone likes a game does *not* immediately make them a mindless, slavering minion to the company. The very notion is absolutely ridiculous. I like the game because I enjoy it, and it entertains me. If someone has a problem with the fact that I play it because I enjoy it, they can quite promptly back the fuck off. Go back to your cave.

    Seriously – if people put HALF as much effort into enjoying things and talking about stuff they like, rather than constantly bitching and moaning about the things they don't, we'd be in a much better world. Just sayin'.

  • Josh Roal

    This game was killed by MMO content locust, people who rushed to end game content and didn't pay any attention to the story lines or the work put into the voice acting. They rushed to the end powered through content and found stuff to bitch about. Yeah the game was buggy, but that's because EA forced the game to be released before it was suppose to. EA wanted it out of the holiday season so bioware being owned by EA was forced to comply. The ways MMOs are looked at are based only on the perfections of other games. Everyone compares a games flaws to the successes in other games and will always continue to happen. When WoW first came out it was shit, tons of bugs and down time, but that didn't stop the game from growing to the largest MMO game of all time.

    People always look at what's wrong with a game before they look at what's right.

  • At risk of being labelled a Biodrone (something I'd not heard of before lol) – Can we at least all agree to hate EA instead of Bioware? We all know that EA has a long history of destroying companies and game IPs.

    Funny how all the haters claim they should be able to have an opinion and express it freely, but then jump down people's throats if in THEIR OPINION, the game is fun. Yay for internet hypocrisy!

    In my opinion, the game is fun. Nowhere near perfect. Nowhere near what it should have been. But I am enjoying it at least for the moment. When I stop enjoying it I'll move on.

  • This game is just very polarizing, but I don't mean in a love it/hate it way, so much. It's more that it's superficially well done, in such a way that people who like it have trouble even understanding how other people could legitimately hate it. Like really, hate it, to the point of seeming like they must be trolls. Might be hard to understand if you appreciate the game, but really, a lot of us do find it to be a terrible game, on some levels.

    Just to address on of your first points, and Ohlen himself, people rating it down the very day it appeared on Metacritic- It had an open beta, and a week-long headstart, before that. A huge number of people had experienced the game by then. Including a lot of people who aren't particularly eloquent or even level-headed, but allowed to have Metacritic accounts, none the less.

  • Nice article Nytloc. The game certainly has it flaws but Internet Hate Machine(tm) really is showing its ridiculous side this time.

  • Well, the main thing is, the people who complain are still paying for the game. The game won't be going anywhere.

  • I like how everyone is comparing every mmo that comes out to WoW. I played WoW for 5 years, it gets boring doing the same crap over and over. What's even more funny, half of these WoW fanboys have never even played beta Wow or Vanilla wow. The game SUCKED and was riddled with bugs and mechanics issues. The fun value on it was minimal at most, although I do admit Blizzard did a great job of steadily improving the game to what it is now. Unfortunately, it has had time to mature and become what it is today through mistakes and hard work which is exactly what BioWare is doing. If you want to see a horrible MMO target Square-Enix for any of the final fantasy MMO's especially XIV which is pretty much unplayable and just a drag to play.

  • Butthurt Biodrone detected…..Let me lap up your delicious tears of nerdrage.

  • what's great is judging by the sales and current subscriber numbers from yesterdays call, they've totally failed :D

  • Lance Steel

    I think that it ironic that you set out to discredit people with a strong negative assessment SWTOR as “hate mongering” and then go on to lump everyone into a single group, a “ToR-hating bandwagon”, and make insults concerning their intelligence using masturbatory and rape descriptors; who is being “classy” now?

    First of all here is how I came into launch. I really wanted this game to succeed. I registered in the forums in 2009. I pre-ordered immediately upon it becoming available. I bought a 10,000 rpm HD that is dedicated to the game. I upgraded my RAM to 8 GB of the fastest type. I deleted all extraneous material from my other HD and defragmented it. I disabled all non-essential processes from the start up menu. I run 2 good GPU’s in SLI. I bought G13 and G700 gaming devices. I upgraded my internet package to one that consistently provides >32 Mbps. I reassured my girlfriend that these upgrades would certainly be necessary for Quicken to run most efficiently. After excitedly waiting 2 years for this game to launch, I have cancelled my subscription as it is unplayable. So if anything I came into this as a BioWare fan, but I now believe that BioWare exists only in name, replaced by EA, and deserving of their inferior reputation.

    There are game breaking issues concerning performance that BioWare representatives have strategically avoided and often redirected the fault onto the player base:

    1) Frame rate issues – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=250918; currently on its 15th 1,000 post iteration. Unfortunately the game runs like a slide show in warzones and worse in open world PvP in Ilum (<1 fps). My set up exceeds their recommended spec and runs other MMO’s well at the highest graphical settings, but I am running SWTOR at the lowest possible with every selectable graphic option at off, or barring that at low. Even though my system is more than sufficient, many of the people experiencing these problems have computer systems that are the top of the line as indicated by their associated DxDiag logs. After weeks of promising to address this recognized issue, BioWare responded with an “optimization” guide (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=252808), which read more like PR spin than an actual guide to fixing these problems, and basically suggested setting graphical options to low. This response was less than helpful, it was insulting and evasive, as certainly most people have tried that and far more of the common sense options, as well as many of the voodoo suggestions flying around the forums. Another users’ comment summed up my feelings, “No offense, but I shouldn't have to turn all my settings to pure $h! T settings for the game to just run Poorly at best. I shouldn't have to PAY for this either. I don't have a solution because I'm not a computer programmer. But if I follow YOUR (un)HELPFUL instructions, I should see marginal improvement right? Well I don't, What I see is a choppy screen and a terrifying lag.” Is there an actual fix on the horizon? Here is Steven Reid’s response: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/599/capturenhz.png.
    2) Error 9000 dc bug – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164536; multiple threads consolidated into this one. Prior to unsubbing I was getting dc’d every 0-10 minutes. I do not need to go into any greater detail why this is a game breaking bug.
    3) Error 1003 unable to connect to server bug – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=200494. Game breaking bug.
    4) CTD/memory leak issues – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=162925&highlight=memory+leak; multiple threads. Once again game breaking bugs.
    These game crippling issues are on top of the general slew of those found in a game at launch (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=66281 & http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=5533), including, but not exclusively, billing issues (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=225396), ineffectual CSR responses (too many individual thread to list), ability delays (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=227621), AA issues (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=175553), wz/social points/raid credit and loot issues (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=267584, http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=90278, multiple empty/unlootable raid chest threads), and launcher issues (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=272).
    Add on top of this a broken open world PvP system where BioWare again shifts blame for unfair game play dynamics onto players threatening bans as opposed to taking responsibility for poorly tested game design (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=212002). Personally I think the heavy gear-centric approach to PvP is an immense flaw that de-emphasizes skill, but that opinion depends upon game play preference, and so I won’t expound on that.

    Low server populations and multiple threads on requests for server mergers one month into the game is a bad indicator of things to come.

    Moreover, I wonder if you have ever examined user reviews of a game from a major studio/IP on Metacritric prior to SWTOR? If not I’ll fill you in, expect numerous zeros and tens accompanied by wild claims; this is in no way unique to SWTOR. I just went to Metacritic and noted that atm there are 822 positive reviews and 590 negative ones. I clicked on positive reviews and found of the first 100 reviews there were 67 tens; I next clicked all user reviews and found that there were 19 zeros and 24 tens. While I agree that even with the massive lag, low frame rate, and dc issues SWTOR doesn’t deserve a zero, I more firmly believe that it doesn’t deserve a ten. If my agenda was to prove an equally unsubstantiated opposite argument I could use this “data” to modify your contention to read as follows: “…hivemind of FANBOI’s that are being fed lies and misinformation in order to make an BELOW-average MMO seem like the BEST thing to ever come out of gaming.” Naturally I wouldn’t be so heavy handed as this if only because such a overtly biased, transparent, and paranoid argument would be subject to ridicule.

    I feel that your time would have been better spent researching the actual serious issues currently leading to negative player feedback rather than speculating about a conspiratorial “bizarre culture, …with no intention but to rape all the reputation of a game seemingly at random”, “who aren’t really playing the game but have a vested interest in hating the game”.

    Conspiracy theories mixed with sexual innuendo (masturbatory and rape references) and insults concerning the intelligence and intentions of people with negative opinions of SWTOR don’t lend any credibility to your essay.

  • These comments are hilarious.
    I have no real desire to buy this game because MMO's don't do it for me, but my friends who do play thinks it's pretty fun. I wasn't aware that the Internet was villfiying anyone who remotely enjoys the game. Biodrone? Seriously?
    If you don't like it, stop playing it and leave the people who do enjoy it alone. This is the Internet, though, so I guess illogical trolling comes with the territory.

  • Ah yes. post ANYTHING about swotor and the trolls will come…. holy crap! Steven Yurgelevic. you are exactly the sort of idiot this article condemns.

  • SWTOR is a great game and a all the haters keep hate you wont destroy this game but one thing I can say You make me laugh.

  • Lance Steel

    "Consistent with the high-profile game's luke-warm reception last month, a recent survey by our commrades at PC Gamer found that many players aren't willing to renew their subscription after the one month free trial."

    http://www.alienwarearena.com/articles/view/star-wars-old-republic-interest-waning/

    • The poll only had 139 voters. The game sold over 2 million units. I'm not sure that the poll is reliable. A link to the poll: http://www.pcgamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15219

    • Lance Steel

      Yes, that is a good point; I didn't realize that the numbers polled were so low. The next few months of BioWare damage control will be critical for sub retention. I think the game is in a unusual position regarding subs being a largely single person/coop game that had MMO theme park elements. I imagine that one time through will be enough for many especially with the limited warzone PvP experience and broken open world PvP, but raiding may keep others around until the next content update.

    • Lance Steel I suppose that's true. I do know several people who are interested in playing the game at least on both sides and to see what the other stories are like. I think you'll probably see a lot of people charging through areas just doing story quests rather than side quests and heroics with their alts. With all of that said, it wasn't a horrible launch by any means and I think a lot of the initial issues will be ironed out over the next 6 months or so. Even though it has it's fair share of downsides it has a large amount of growth room and can do so organically. If they put out updates, content patches, and expansions as often as they have said they want to, I'm sure people will stick around. Probably see a dip of subscribers over the next six months, but they'll start to pick up around 6 months. Around a year or so you'll see a lot of the founder subscribers come back.

    • Lance Steel

      I am not sure how to gauge what not a horrible launch might mean to different people, but for me, and others represented by the 10’s of thousands of posts on low frame rate issues and Error 9000 dc bugs, it was a terrible launch (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=250918 & http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164536). The game started out well, but these issues started to manifest at around the 2 weeks mark, building to a point where for large periods of time I would hit latency spikes and get dc’d every 0-10 minutes independent of server load. During unpredictable windows of non-latency, frame rates dropped to a slide show in warzones and worst of all in open world PvP in Ilum (<1 fps in crowded areas). This combination made the game unplayable and as such I had to stop playing 2 weeks prior to my sub running out. That is a terrible launch experience, one that certainly does not foster resubs. Realize that I am not unique in this experience and these are uncorrected bugs in people with systems above the recommended specs, running graphical options at the lowest possible settings, which are acknowledged by BioWare in multiple respawned 1000 post threshold threads.

      Even if I was not experiencing these crippling bugs it would have been unlikely to hold my interest for longer than 2 months given that the open world PvP is completely broken, warzones are small and monotonous, servers feel dead, and the heavy gear-centric approach de-emphasizes skill and made me feel like the major reason I was even logging in was to get yet another token to buy another item to stay competitive as opposed to have fun. The extreme disconnect between the theme park elements also hurt immersion; switching from objective (now kill) trading in Ilum, to playing in a mixed team in Huttball, repeating the same dailies, and then riding on a roller coaster in space missions was all very random and in the end predictably tedious.

      I think it there will be a large drop off of subs in the next 2 months, and believe is overly optimistic to expect people to resub after 6 months; I cannot think of any reason why bored and/or pissed off players would take the time to reinstall and pay a sub for a game that drove them away a few months earlier. MMO attention spans are short and a game’s best chance to retain subs is to entice them to stay. Once people leave there is little impetus to come back, especially with new games coming up within the year. I imagine that at some point SWTOR will go to a F2P model and then people may re-evaluate it, but I have received multiple letters inviting me on an all expense paid trip back to Hyboria, but even so I cannot be bothered to re-saddle up my War Rhino and make the trip back.

    • Lance Steel

      Here is one user's theory on the poor frame rate bug: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2306593#post2306593

    • Lance Steel

      An interesting quote from the second SWTOR Q&A session:

      “We actually had chat bubbles in beta, but there was unfortunately some serious performance issues that our implementation caused that, for example, made things really suck in warzones and the fleet. ”

      I see this pointing to the incomplete optimization of their modified Hero engine, which is likely responsible for current low frame rate issues in warzones and fleet, as well as Ilum, when multiple player characters need to be rendered. Older games run chat bubbles with no significant frame rate issues.

      http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012

  • I don't understand any of these comments. All the comments talking shit about it seem to be making the point of the article. Just because you say, it really does suck doesn't make it true. Bioware is doing better than they thought they would at this point, and every new claim that comes out against it is either a half truth or a flat out lie. The most official bad news about the game was from some analyst that said it wasn't doing as well as they hoped and like a week later that turned out to be untrue. I am playing the game and they are constantly fixing things in the game that people complain about. They do listen to their fanbase. Even if the game does suck that bad, is it really worth people coming out in droves to protest? And no, the reviewers don't get paid for their reviews. Are you guys honestly saying you've never seen a game come out by a big developer or distributor that and it flopped and got bad reviews? At it's worst it's not the worst game ever, but you'd think it was by how many people need to make sure everyone who plays this game knows they're playing a shitty game. Let it go.

  • sorry about the grammar. I'm tired

  • This is what I don't get: if you guys are so upset every time a shitty game gets good reviews and tricks you into buying it that you take to the webpages like you have for this one, why is this the only one getting attacked so bad? It hasn't sold more copies than other games by far. The basis of everyone's argument is that the reviewers were in the pockets of EA and Bioware. That doesn't make sense though. You guys have never seen a game that a big distributor and developer spent lots of money on get bad reviews? Even games that EA puts out get bad reviews. To say that a company like gamespot who gives very tough but fair reviews can be bought is silly. I do think that some people have legitimate gripes with the game, but I think most of the people have never played it and are jumping on the bandwagon. I know this because the complaints are mostly cut and pasted.

    • Lance Steel

      In reference to this post and your previous ones:

      First of all I would have no more of a problem with someone sharing their positive experiences in the comments section of a negative review, than I would of someone expressing negative experiences on a positive article. Nonetheless, I feel that you are losing perspective in that this is an article that attacks people who have a negative opinion of the game and instead of acknowledging potential issues proposes the existence of a conspiratorial “bizarre culture, …with no intention but to rape all the reputation of a game seemingly at random”, “who aren’t really playing the game but have a vested interest in hating the game”; it is completely appropriate for people who have legitimate problems with the game to offer dissenting viewpoints in defense of the articles global characterization of a “hivemind” of people who inexplicably hate on SWTOR. For people who dislike the game either due to play style preferences or indisputable game crippling bugs (low frame rates, Error 9000 dc’s, and Error 1003 inability to connect errors) these highly speculative and poorly substantiated accusations are dismissive and insulting.

      I think you are concocting a strawman argument by implying that people who dislike the game believe that reviewers with a favorable opinion have been paid off, which again is a conspiratorial viewpoint that I prefer not to have forcibly projected onto me. I think that most reviewers have a limited exposure to the game upon writing a review. These early reviews can’t possibly included the myriad of bugs that are identified post-launch, and would certainly be incomplete regarding endgame options, especially in light of server dynamics (faction imbalances, low frame rates, and poor objective design in Ilum for instance).

      As far as your opinion that the “most official bad news about the game was from some analyst that said it wasn't doing as well”, “that turned out to be untrue”, I would caution you not jump to conclusions on the basis of short term volatility in stock quotes. You may have felt that analysis you cite was unjustified as EA stock values then rose in the following week; of course if you check as of 2/11 you’ll find that EA value has depreciated back down to what it was at the time of that first critical article (17.30), and a new article emerged that set their stock at neutral (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/videogame-stocks-sink-on-weak-sales-data-2012-02-10) due to “factors such as the continued talent drain of key management (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-cfo-leaves-for-polycom-2012-02-08 & http://www.marketwatch.com/story/videogame-stocks-sink-on-weak-sales-data-2012-02-10), weak industry sales and very limited visibility into the trends for Star Wars: The Old Republic". In short wait 2 months and then we can see if the initial assessment of game performance in the marketplace was “untrue”.

      I disagree with your statement that “they are constantly fixing things in the game that people complain about”, and that “They do listen to their fanbase”, at least in so much with regards to extent and focus; the most disabling bugs remain unfixed even after 10’s of thousands of customer service request posts (see my articles below for references). Perhaps they are unable to isolate their causes, and/or fix them, but at the end of the day one cannot form a positive impression of a game that is unplayable for them. if you do not suffer from these issues consider yourself lucky, but people who do and spent $60-150 on the game are not pleased, having legitimate concerns, and should feel justified in expressing them, especially in dismissive articles such as this one.

  • Gregory Alan

    I've had this game since launch, and I love it. Can't wait for Makeb. In all honesty, the hate is seriously stupid. I've played a lot of MMO's. Other than WoW this is the only other game that kept me around longer than 6 months.

  • Gregory Alan

    I've had this game since launch, and I love it. Can't wait for Makeb. In all honesty, the hate is seriously stupid. I've played a lot of MMO's. Other than WoW this is the only other game that kept me around longer than 6 months.

  • Thank you, good sir, for a well-reasoned argument. I too am sick of the haters. They've had a detrimental side effect on more than just TOR. On the sites I read, the TORhaters were also rabid GW2 supporters, and even though I enjoyed the game in Beta, I refused to become part of a community whose primary supporters flung hate and vitriol at a decent if somewhat uninspired game.

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